#linuxcnc Logs

Apr 13 2024

10:27 AM c-log: travis_farmer: Today's Log http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2024-04-13.html
10:28 AM travis_farmer: BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
10:29 AM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> there, gotta take trash to dump now... 🙂
10:58 AM roycroft: i may have to start doing that soon, when i move
10:58 AM roycroft: there is trash pickup at the new place, but very limited recycling
10:59 AM roycroft: it may be better for me to just go to the transfer station to take care of all of that stuff
11:07 AM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
11:12 AM c-log: Tom_L: Today's Log http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2024-04-13.html
11:12 AM JT-Shop: you on the way home?
11:12 AM Tom_L: Yup
11:13 AM Tom_L: Not sure how to Kill the 2nd bot from here
11:14 AM bjorkintosh: the correct thing would be for the bot creator to trigger it using a different command.
11:14 AM bjorkintosh: like log2
11:14 AM Tom_L: left the port at 7:30
11:15 AM JT-Shop: you past houston yet?
11:16 AM Tom_L: 170 mi from Dallas
11:16 AM JT-Shop: nice
11:16 AM roycroft: vectric 12 is out now
11:17 AM roycroft: it's a free upgrade for me, fortunately
11:18 AM Tom_L: You can Kill the 2nd bot if you want to
11:18 AM Tom_L: I just can't do it from here
11:19 AM Tom_L: ssh isn't working very good
11:20 AM Tom_L: should be home by 6pm
11:22 AM roycroft: i'm heading up to the new place in a few minutes to tear out walls and pull electric wires
11:22 AM Tom_L: traffic wasn't bad in houston today
11:24 AM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> On toilet. Will kill second bot. In a minute
11:26 AM Tom_L: it may rejoin though
11:26 AM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> I have it in ssh
11:26 AM Tom_L: It's not hurting anything
11:27 AM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> Ok...
11:29 AM Tom_L: are you running one with the same name???
11:29 AM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> C-log2
11:29 AM Tom_L: Cause that wont work
11:30 AM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> Yours is just c-log
11:30 AM Tom_L: and redundant
11:31 AM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> I can change commands...
11:32 AM Tom_L: good idea
11:34 AM Tom_L: At first i thought mine was running a 2nd instance
11:35 AM Tom_L: But it didntshowin ssh
11:36 AM lcnc-relay: <roguish> good morning.... pissing rain again....
11:42 AM travis_farmer: log
11:42 AM c-log: travis_farmer: Today's Log http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~tom-itx/irc/logs/%23linuxcnc/2024-04-13.html
11:42 AM travis_farmer: better?
11:42 AM Tom_L: not worse
11:45 AM Tom_L: JT-shop, run from line working good now?
11:48 AM rue_mohr: can you just select the line and click run?
11:48 AM Tom_L: ooo up to 0.1.1 now
11:48 AM Tom_L: Rue, yes
11:48 AM rue_mohr: good good
11:48 AM Tom_L: basically..
11:49 AM rue_mohr: I had to make sure on mine that I locked out that feature when it was running so you could edit a line ahead of the program counter without changing the program counters position
11:49 AM Tom_L: You need to make sure the spindle etc are on
11:50 AM rue_mohr: yea, on mine thats up to the use
11:50 AM rue_mohr: r
11:50 AM rue_mohr: I usually just select the lines that do that and click step
11:57 AM Tom_L: It waits for a manual tool change
11:59 AM Tom_L: Part of the manual tool change comp
12:04 PM Tom_L: i'll check in later...
01:22 PM travis_farmer: i tried to get backup-log setup as a daemon, but it would not work right...
01:33 PM travis_farmer: there, finally!
01:41 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> quiet in here, now that i am done farting around... 😉
02:00 PM XXCoder: it smelled a lot
04:01 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> fucking samsung dryer roller use a 13mm bearing
04:27 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> the home machinist in me wants to spend all day converting them to roller bearings(instead of bronze bushings). but the professional machinist in me says "fuck that, buy them from piece of shit jeff bozos. dont waste time making purchase items and spend the whole day not machining."
04:29 PM roycroft: a big part of engineering is doing a cost-benefit analysis
04:38 PM lcnc-relay: <big_kevin420> something i wish more engineers would understand instead of having me make ridiculous or something you can buy
04:42 PM roycroft: the state of oregon just passed the teethiest right to repair law in the nation
04:42 PM roycroft: it's still not good enough, but it's a good start
04:43 PM XXCoder: nice!
04:45 PM roycroft: yeah
04:45 PM roycroft: ours is the only law that requires the ability to repair things with used parts
04:46 PM roycroft: apple scrambled to reengineer the iphone 15 so it could be repaired with used parts
04:46 PM roycroft: they see the oregon law as a model for the rest of the nation
04:46 PM roycroft: not that they want it to be, but they're being realistic
04:51 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> sorry for the farting XX 🙂 but it seems to run smoothly now 🙂
04:54 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> maine passed a fair one roycroft, now the government is trying to kill it
04:54 PM joakimk: I'm working on being able to cut a pcb on a copper plated fiberglass plate using a CNC machine (Roland SRM-20). I'm using Eagle, followed by FlatCam. I need some advice on how to cut (carve?) when the piece is not perfectly flat
04:55 PM joakimk: I "zero" the Z-axis using the "chuck drop" method, but the height is not the same all over. So the carving (i.e. the traces) vary too much across the board
04:57 PM joakimk: Often, the job starts out quite nicely on one end (e.g. left half) of the board, but then -- after half the job is done -- the traces become non-existent when the machine works on the other end of the board
04:58 PM bjorkintosh: joakimk, what is the cause of the height differences?
04:59 PM bjorkintosh: is it predictable?
04:59 PM joakimk: the plate is slightly bent, or uneven :(
04:59 PM bjorkintosh: there's no pre-process to fix that before hand?
04:59 PM bjorkintosh: it'll eliminate your headaches.
04:59 PM joakimk: I have to pry it loose after cutting the board profile. I use double sided tape to fasten the larger piece to a bit of wood while cutting the profile
04:59 PM joakimk: then I have to, you know, get the piece off after
04:59 PM joakimk: ... with a spatula
05:00 PM joakimk: also, not confident the plates (from AliExpress) are 100% even to begin with
05:01 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> machine the wood you attach to so it is flat to the machine
05:01 PM joakimk: but the spatula doesn't help... Maybe I should fasten the plate using screws or something other than tape/glue, so I can more easily pluck out my part after cutting.Thing is, I need to fasten the plate to some sacrificial plate while cutting
05:02 PM joakimk: but after cutting my piece, I don't use a wooden part beneath it. When doing the carving, I fasten it to the thing that came with the machine -- the metallic part which you can screw open and closed, and will clamp a part down
05:03 PM joakimk: what's that thing called?
05:03 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> vice?
05:04 PM joakimk: yes, I think so! This thing https://rolanddg-ae.com/all-products/mpx-95-impact-printer-accessories/
05:05 PM joakimk: so, to cut my piece out, I need to fasten onto a sacrificial part of wood. Then, I remove it and clamp in the vice for etching top and bottom layer. That's where I get problems. I'd think the part sits quite flat in the vice, but the part itself is not 100% even
05:06 PM joakimk: of course I need to first try to just be more gentle removing the part from the wood (I use double sided tape). Try using some adhesive solvent spray, and being careful not to apply vertical pressure
05:08 PM joakimk: but would it help to somehow clamp the part down, along all sides, or maybe at all four corners? It that a "known method" that helps?
05:08 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> sounds like the vice is out of square with the machine
05:08 PM joakimk: no I don't think its the vice... If the part itself (the copper plate) is warped, I'll have just these problems, wouldn't I? Isn't that more likely than the vice being the problem?
05:09 PM joakimk: I wish it would somehow auto-adjust Z while carving ;)
05:09 PM joakimk: or allow me to compensate while carving...
05:09 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> there could be small variations in thickness of the PCB
05:10 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> yeah, it needs auto leveling like my Ender 3
05:10 PM joakimk: yes, that too
05:11 PM bjorkintosh: for an auto z to work, you'd have to probe the part.
05:11 PM bjorkintosh: or. correctly predict where the high and low points are.
05:11 PM joakimk: don't think this machine is that advanced
05:11 PM bjorkintosh: or. find a better way of holding the part.
05:11 PM joakimk: any recommendations?
05:12 PM bjorkintosh: hmm.
05:12 PM bjorkintosh: poka yoke.
05:12 PM joakimk: maybe I should try carving top and bottom traces first -- before cutting the profile out at the very end
05:12 PM bjorkintosh: you'd have to think a bit.
05:13 PM joakimk: hehe, I have been at this for quite some time :P But, it's only a hobby project so I'm learning the hard way
05:13 PM bjorkintosh: sometimes it's the only way.
05:14 PM bjorkintosh: I mean, you mentioned different approaches.
05:14 PM joakimk: if a part is indeed "lifted" slightly (by being bent with a spatula) on one side, do you think it would help or alleviate the problem if I were to clamp the part down along all sides, using some kind of metal frame? Does that sound sensible?
05:15 PM bjorkintosh: why not?
05:15 PM bjorkintosh: it's just metal.
05:15 PM bjorkintosh: it's used to being beaten upon.
05:15 PM joakimk: well, middle is fiber glass
05:15 PM joakimk: copper plated
05:15 PM bjorkintosh: hmm I see.
05:15 PM joakimk: but maybe it would "flatten out" if it was held down with force (on all sides)
05:16 PM bjorkintosh: can you use a wire to lift it up instead of the spatula?
05:16 PM bjorkintosh: would that work?
05:16 PM joakimk: that's a good idea!
05:16 PM joakimk: first, solvent spray, then wire
05:16 PM joakimk: be more careful, I guess ;)
05:16 PM bjorkintosh: wire is the tried and true way used on the potter's wheel.
05:17 PM joakimk: yes
05:17 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> how thick is the plate
05:17 PM joakimk: Approx. 10x15cm/3.94x5.91"
05:17 PM joakimk: ah sorry
05:18 PM joakimk: 1.5mm
05:18 PM joakimk: so 10x15cm and 1.5mm thick :)
05:18 PM bjorkintosh: what's that in moon walker units?
05:18 PM joakimk: 0.06"
05:18 PM joakimk: I believe?
05:18 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> you don't have a base metal plate?
05:18 PM bjorkintosh: that's pretty thin.
05:19 PM joakimk: lcnc-relay no... when I carve the traces? no...
05:19 PM joakimk: it does "sit" in the vice though, on the edges of it
05:20 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> get like a plate of aluminum about 1/4 inch (6mm?) thick to adhear the PCB to
05:20 PM joakimk: but I need to flip it, to carve the other side
05:20 PM joakimk: more solven + wire then?
05:20 PM bjorkintosh: joakimk, lcnc-relay is just a relay. the actual person's name follows immediately after.
05:20 PM joakimk: ah
05:20 PM bjorkintosh: there're numerous people using the relay.
05:20 PM joakimk: thanks
05:20 PM bjorkintosh: no worries.
05:21 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> i am on Discord, so it is a relay to IRC
05:22 PM joakimk: the job is actually a three-stage process: 1) cut the profile (the actual dimensions of my PCB design), 2) carve top layer (traces), and 3) flip the board and carve bottom layer
05:22 PM joakimk: the X/Y origo has to be the same (or very close) for steps 2 and 3
05:24 PM joakimk: but OK! Try to use wire (and more care) after step 1, and also try to have some flat support underneath the part for steps 2 and 3 (aluminum or something)
05:24 PM lcnc-relay: <travis_farmer> Hmm. if you had a metal mill i would say take a plate of aluminum, machine a 2-axis "fence" into the plate, and but your PCB into the fence
05:25 PM joakimk: yes, but all my jobs have different dimensions. So it would be hard to reuse the thing for the next project
05:25 PM bjorkintosh: and clamping it down is out of the question?
05:25 PM joakimk: I do think the CNC machine would be able to do this type of milling
05:26 PM joakimk: no I think I could try clamping it! Is this something one might be able to buy, or is this something I'd have to try to make
05:26 PM bjorkintosh: depends. there are numerous types available.
05:27 PM joakimk: could you please send me a link, so I could see an example? If that's not too much trouble :)
05:27 PM joakimk: just so I know what we're talking about
05:27 PM bjorkintosh: for work holding?
05:27 PM joakimk: yes
05:28 PM bjorkintosh: ooh. let's see.
05:28 PM bjorkintosh: what's the machine you're working with again?
05:28 PM joakimk: SRM-20
05:28 PM joakimk: Roland
05:28 PM bjorkintosh: so solutions range from magnets to vacuums to c clamps ...
05:29 PM joakimk: :)
05:30 PM bjorkintosh: but for something that tiny ...
05:30 PM bjorkintosh: you're really limited, I'm afraid.
05:31 PM joakimk: as in, the thickness?
05:31 PM joakimk: too thin?
05:31 PM bjorkintosh: http://axotron.se/blog/category/cnc/page/2/
05:31 PM bjorkintosh: no the machine's enclosure and everything else.
05:32 PM joakimk: aaha
05:32 PM bjorkintosh: you'll have to get creative.
05:33 PM joakimk: when cutting the part out from the overall plate (the profile 1st stage), do you think I need to secure the entire plate with tape (to the wooden block)? Or could I just clamp the sides? Would the middle piece -- the one being cut out -- risk flying loose when being cut free?
05:33 PM bjorkintosh: I cannot tell.
05:33 PM joakimk: If I didn't have to use so much adhesive (tape), I could just pick out the part when done
05:33 PM joakimk: seems like that's what's going on in your link
05:34 PM bjorkintosh: if it's clamped down, it won't go anywhere.
05:34 PM joakimk: but the larger part is clamped down, not the part you actually cut loose
05:34 PM bjorkintosh: oh I see what you mean.
05:34 PM joakimk: :)
05:34 PM bjorkintosh: you'll have to leave tabs on there to be cut or broken off.
05:35 PM joakimk: that's what's normally done when you cut something using CNC?
05:35 PM joakimk: cut out a middle piece?
05:35 PM bjorkintosh: sometimes, absolutely.
05:35 PM joakimk: tabs?
05:35 PM bjorkintosh: yeah. when working with plates.
05:35 PM joakimk: for safety=
05:35 PM bjorkintosh: otherwise, as you observed, it will fly off.
05:35 PM joakimk: I guess it might
05:36 PM joakimk: I'll try tabs! And less adhesive :) Thanks for all the helpful advice!
05:36 PM bjorkintosh: I used to cut out long sections of metal from square tubes on a laser cutter. without the tabs, it was an unpredictable disaster.
05:37 PM joakimk: :-|
05:37 PM bjorkintosh: yeah. whacking the laser head was not cheap.
05:37 PM bjorkintosh: and whack it did, if the tabs didn't hold.
05:37 PM joakimk: ouch
05:38 PM joakimk: would you expect a laser cutter could "etch" traces through a copper plating (like 1.4 to 2.8 mils)
05:39 PM joakimk: without cutting straight through the entire 0.06" plate? Or reflecting, and damaging the laser -- or the operator's eyes!!
05:39 PM joakimk: scared of those lasers...
05:39 PM bjorkintosh: yes it can.
05:39 PM bjorkintosh: and you need shields/goggles.
05:40 PM bjorkintosh: the only time I had trouble with a laser beam was when I pointed a dollar store laser pointer at my eyeball.
05:40 PM bjorkintosh: I don't recommend it.
05:40 PM joakimk: :-o
05:40 PM joakimk: I hope you're ok
05:41 PM bjorkintosh: oh it's been months.
05:41 PM bjorkintosh: i haven't done it since :-)
05:41 PM joakimk: hehe
05:41 PM joakimk: so no permanent damage
05:41 PM joakimk: not reading this in braille?
05:41 PM bjorkintosh: who's Louis Braille?
05:41 PM joakimk: hehe
05:42 PM joakimk: but "yes it can", you said... Was that re using the laser for etching (only so deep), or "yes it can damage stuff"
05:42 PM joakimk: or both
05:42 PM bjorkintosh: both.
05:43 PM joakimk: but is laser on metals (like copper) generally a bad idea, or quite straight forward. Using normal safety measures for lazers
05:44 PM bjorkintosh: it's fine.
05:44 PM joakimk: would probably be less sensitive to plate/material "flatness"
05:44 PM joakimk: than physical carving, requiring actual touch
05:45 PM joakimk: (have NO idea what I'm talking about now)
05:45 PM bjorkintosh: hmm. it depends on how strong (S) you set the beam.
05:45 PM joakimk: and then, more damage
05:45 PM joakimk: :P
05:45 PM bjorkintosh: right.
05:45 PM bjorkintosh: there's gotta be a way to flatten the material.
05:45 PM joakimk: think I'll stick to the good old V-bit
05:45 PM joakimk: yes
05:45 PM joakimk: have some ideas to try out on Monday
05:46 PM joakimk: I hope tabs will leave my part more undamaged (i.e. flat), so carving will be OK. This doesn't have to be perfect; I'm "just" trying to make some prototype PCBs
05:47 PM joakimk: before ordering a batch from abroad. Need to see that my design works, and that components fit, and sit in the right place wrt. housing etc etc
05:47 PM joakimk: and I don't want to mess around with all those acids, for etching a PCB. Which is the normal hobbyist approach
05:48 PM joakimk: spent way too much time and effort on this already, but that's what a hobby is for, isn't it? :)
05:50 PM joakimk: got to be going :) Thanks again for the chat and for your help!
05:51 PM bjorkintosh: yes.
05:51 PM bjorkintosh: 'holding tabs' or 'bridges' are what you want to search for
05:51 PM bjorkintosh: if you need more googling.
05:59 PM joakimk: thanks again :) Have a good day!
05:59 PM bjorkintosh: enjoy
06:37 PM Centurion_Dan1 is now known as Centurion_Dan
07:04 PM JT-Shop: so I was asked today if ladder jacks can be used to mount a ladder to a truck...
07:05 PM XXCoder: pre-darwin award?
07:05 PM JT-Shop: lol
07:06 PM JT-Shop: I added to the description if you don't know what a ladder jack is you don't need them
07:07 PM XXCoder: yay I dont need one then lol
07:07 PM JT-Shop: one won't do anything
07:08 PM XXCoder: lol one pair
07:15 PM * JT-Shop calls it a night
07:18 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:22 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:22 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
07:23 PM Unterhaus__ is now known as Unterhausen
07:30 PM Tom_L: home again, home again...
07:30 PM XXCoder: homeception
07:31 PM JT-Cave: there's nothing like home
07:31 PM Tom_L: 9 hrs isn't bad
07:32 PM XXCoder: need ruby shoes to get home faster
07:35 PM Tom_L: that was 1/2 hr for lunch for the 'kids'
07:35 PM Tom_L: looks like we had 0 rain here but alot of wind
07:36 PM Tom_L: duh, no backlog on this pc.. it was off
07:55 PM rifraf: join #python
08:06 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/24_trip/green_eggs2.jpg
08:07 PM Tom_L: few more there
08:08 PM JT-Cave: that's some green eggs lol
08:08 PM Tom_L: was alot of fun for them
08:08 PM XXCoder: no green ham tho lol
08:09 PM Tom_L: green pancakes
08:09 PM Tom_L: if the ham were green i might pass
08:09 PM JT-Cave: yup
08:14 PM Tom_L: we were able to park within walking distance of the terminal: http://tom-itx.no-ip.biz:81/~webpage/temp/24_trip/parking1.jpg
08:14 PM Tom_L: just past the yellow building
08:15 PM Tom_L: we came out the end door of the one in the foreground
08:16 PM Tom_L: and the industrial road out is the winding road at the top... no trafic
08:16 PM Tom_L: ff
08:32 PM firephoto__ is now known as firephoto_
08:35 PM -!- #linuxcnc mode set to +v by ChanServ
08:35 PM Tom_L: JT-Cave, run from line:
08:35 PM Tom_dev: Note: Using POSIX realtime
08:35 PM Tom_dev: Traceback (most recent call last):
08:35 PM Tom_dev: File "/usr/lib/python3/dist-packages/libflexgui/actions.py", line 197, in action_run_from_line
08:35 PM Tom_dev: self.lbl.setText(f'Current line number: {selected_block}')
08:36 PM Tom_dev: ^^^^
08:36 PM Tom_dev: NameError: name 'self' is not defined
08:36 PM Tom_L: from line 1
08:47 PM Tom_L: or others
08:53 PM Tom_L: tried several variations, same result
08:55 PM Tom_L: run program, pause, step, resume, stop still buggy. i'll test further later
08:56 PM Tom_L: to try and give you a sequence
08:56 PM Tom_L: mdi looks alot better
08:59 PM Tom_L: could be run from line messing it up
09:07 PM Tom_L: run, pause, step, step, step, stop, run program<--broke
09:10 PM Tom_L: on a tool change line
09:11 PM Tom_L: err on the H word line: G43 G00 Z1.25 H45
09:12 PM Tom_L: seems like a very specific sequence
09:12 PM Tom_L: most of the time it works